[x-plorer]

Hi guys,


I'm a newcomer here. Got my new 2018 Eclipse Cross with a CVT a few weeks ago. I noticed that when the car starts to accelerate from low RPMs (like 1500), especially when driving uphill, there is a slight but easily audible sound coming somewhere from the motor compartment that I can best describe as the sound of an old movie projector. Nothing too dramatic, but still a bit alarming.


Does anyone experience the same thing and what do you think of it? I wonder if it is a feature or a bug, so to speak.

 

[Elpato]

Hi X-Plorer ,

That can be your Turbo Sound, and it should sound like a Sport Car accelerating. my EC's CVT has delay when I kick down the Gas pedal.

 

[x-plorer]

Hi X-Plorer ,

That can be your Turbo Sound, and it should sound like a Sport Car accelerating. my EC's CVT has delay when I kick down the Gas pedal.

Thanks Elpato. I think I've got a different sound. Anyhow, I'm going to the dealer for a check next week. I will post a report afterwards.

 

[slippercream]

I, too, find it strange that the CVT transmission wants to push the engine to go to lower RPMs than I think it should when attempting to accelerate. That's one of my main issues with it - programming doesn't seem to understand intuitively what the driver wants to do. (Which is counter to what INVECS used to stand for... until Mitsubishi bought into the whole f*cking Jatco bullshit... because they're cheap f*cks.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INVECS​

That sound you're probably hearing is valve tappets. In a manual transmission, pushing an engine to drag gears without the appropriate air/fuel mixture will stall an engine. Generally speaking, you don't hear a crankshaft spin, but you will hear valve tappets. Hearing them just means you need to push the pedal a little more to add the inputs the engine needs to match the additional "weight" the gears impose on an engine, say, compared to idle.

I don't know if this makes sense to you. Just know that with an automatic transmission and especially a CVT like this you really can't influence this much. If you hear, or even sense that you're close to this "stalling" moment, just add a little more pedal pressure to the accelerator, and hopefully that'll fix the problem.

Stupid Jatcos.

 

[slippercream]

One more thing --- you do *not* hear the turbo on this car. It's smaller than a gerbil's a**hole to even hear anything.

 

[x-plorer]

That sound you're probably hearing is valve tappets. In a manual transmission, pushing an engine to drag gears without the appropriate air/fuel mixture will stall an engine. Generally speaking, you don't hear a crankshaft spin, but you will hear valve tappets. Hearing them just means you need to push the pedal a little more to add the inputs the engine needs to match the additional "weight" the gears impose on an engine, say, compared to idle.

Hi and many thanks for the explanation. It does make a lot of sense to me, albeit I'm no mechanical guy. I feel you are talking exactly about the thing that bothers me. Btw, I went to another Mitsu dealership and test-drove another EC with exactly the same specs. The sound is there as well, although a bit less pronounced than in my case. Maybe because their car had already drive a few thousand miles more than mine.


Can you please tell me if this valve tappet sound is more of a "feature" than a "bug". I mean, how bad is this thing for the engine?

 

[slippercream]

Well, first off, newer Mitsubishi engines (since about the mid- to late 90s, really) have utilized hydraulic valve lifters (tappets). Used to be, valve "lash" (or, the sound produced by a gap between the valve ends and the rockers that sounded like intermittent ticking) had to be manually checked and adjusted.
Before hydraulic, you had to adjust this:

By doing this:

As the term "hydraulic" suggests, tappets in these modern engines require:

1. A proper warm-up of the engine, and
2. Good, clean oil

... to ensure longevity. We all know what a cold start run sounds like:

To get to the point, the only thing I would suggest here is to have the dealership check to see if there's any unusual tick at idle. The vehicle is covered under warranty for 10 years --- use it. Else if you really want to do this yourself, then know the tolerances for adjusting the clearance yourself.
Else, tappets do wear over time --- and that could either be caused by bad buildup or just improper maintenance. (e.g., cold start runs, bad oil, or dirty oil).


Now, last thing I'll say is this --- it's expected that, if an engine doesn't spin very quickly (i.e., low RPMs), that all the accessories in-line with the accessory and drive/timing belts will reciprocally not work very quickly. Of particular importance in this instance is the oil pump, which is also belt. When the transmission "drags" the engine because it's wanting to drive a "larger" gear, while the engine is working hard to spin faster --- THEN wouldn't it make sense for it to require more oil from its oil pump to keep all its internals lubricated?

That's why you have that tappet tick. Engine working hard, transmission wanting to drive on a larger gear. It's like you pedaling a bike from a low speed on a large gear.
I hope that makes sense.


Sad to say, no one in their right mind will want to (or even know how to) adjust the programming on the TCU to change this. So yeah. It's not that the engine isn't good enough --- it's the CVT and the TCU programming for the CVT that sucks.
Sorry for your troubles, and I hope this all made sense. :/

 

[slippercream]

One last thing - on occasion I'll actually shift down a simulated gear to let the engine spin freer. Not that I get better torque this way (again, that CVT sucks) , but in the effort to some way not let the engine struggle too much.
Because I hear you --- and I hate hearing that sound too. That sound that's like a bunch of plastic clips rattling around in a tin can. And, I know that can't logically be good for the engine.

It just came to me --- before you drive to your next oil change, try this: get a can of Seafoam (not the one for transmissions, mind you) and pour the whole can out, and in where you'd pour engine oil. If you change oil yourself, do this and drive around for about 10 minutes. Then change oil.

See if that makes the idle tapping a little better for you.


Last word of advice --- skip the dinosaur oil and go full synth. Less buildup and longer oil life (generally).
And, no race oil needed --- that zinc will actually clog up your internals more than you think, for a daily-driven car.

 

[x-plorer]

One last thing - on occasion I'll actually shift down a simulated gear to let the engine spin freer. Not that I get better torque this way (again, that CVT sucks) , but in the effort to some way not let the engine struggle too much.
Because I hear you --- and I hate hearing that sound too. That sound that's like a bunch of plastic clips rattling around in a tin can. And, I know that can't logically be good for the engine.
It just came to me --- before you drive to your next oil change, try this: get a can of Seafoam (not the one for transmissions, mind you) and pour the whole can out, and in where you'd pour engine oil. If you change oil yourself, do this and drive around for about 10 minutes. Then change oil.
See if that makes the idle tapping a little better for you.
Last word of advice --- skip the dinosaur oil and go full synth. Less buildup and longer oil life (generally).
And, no race oil needed --- that zinc will actually clog up your internals more than you think, for a daily-driven car.

Many thanks for your knowlegeable and empathic replies. I think we are speaking about the same thing.


My car is brand new, so I would not change oil or indeed do any other maintenance myself.



While I was driving the car today, looking for ways to avoid this sound that gets so much on my nerves (I think I found a good way to describe the nature of this sound -- it sounds like a Geiger counter), it crossed my mind that maybe a higher octane petrol would help the engine perform better even at lower RPMs.


What do you think?

 

[slippercream]

Nah, higher octane fuel is only really needed to prevent engine knock on high horsepower / extremely hot engines. It shouldn't be needed for this one.

You could give it a go and see if it changes anything. What I'd strongly suggest that you do is get your service manager to listen to the noise, to see if this is something out of the ordinary.
Though, I'll admit - the likelihood of "finding" a "real" problem while explaining an issue with a service advisor is like getting a politician to admit to the existence of corruption within his/her own office.
You know... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Remember, the reason I believe this is happening is because the engine isn't getting enough air/fuel mix (i.e. accelerator) to match the load on the crankshaft that is being imposed by the transmission. This is what I mean by "bad programming".
The only things they might check here are the engine idle RPMs (to see if they're unusually low), or check timing. Else, if the engine doesn't sound too much like a diesel engine at idle, there's really not much you can do here.

There is one more thing you can try to explore, but I wouldn't if it'll be a large expense for you. By the way, no guarantees with this one:

Get a better flowing engine air filter.

It might do you a little bit of benefit either way - whether it be marginally better acceleration, or better throttle response.
What this might do (depending on how the engine "relearns" with the new filter) is that the ECU recalibrates fuel requirements to match the amount of airflow mix in the moment of acceleration.

Think of it this way: You add better grounding wires to give your engine better spark. A better flowing intake enhances the one part of equation (of 2) required for better combustion.

I hope this helps.

 

[x-plorer]

Nah, higher octane fuel is only really needed to prevent engine knock on high horsepower / extremely hot engines. It shouldn't be needed for this one.

You could give it a go and see if it changes anything. What I'd strongly suggest that you do is get your service manager to listen to the noise, to see if this is something out of the ordinary.
Though, I'll admit - the likelihood of "finding" a "real" problem while explaining an issue with a service advisor is like getting a politician to admit to the existence of corruption within his/her own office.
You know... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Remember, the reason I believe this is happening is because the engine isn't getting enough air/fuel mix (i.e. accelerator) to match the load on the crankshaft that is being imposed by the transmission. This is what I mean by "bad programming".
The only things they might check here are the engine idle RPMs (to see if they're unusually low), or check timing. Else, if the engine doesn't sound too much like a diesel engine at idle, there's really not much you can do here.

There is one more thing you can try to explore, but I wouldn't if it'll be a large expense for you. By the way, no guarantees with this one:

Get a better flowing engine air filter.

It might do you a little bit of benefit either way - whether it be marginally better acceleration, or better throttle response.
What this might do (depending on how the engine "relearns" with the new filter) is that the ECU recalibrates fuel requirements to match the amount of airflow mix in the moment of acceleration.

Think of it this way: You add better grounding wires to give your engine better spark. A better flowing intake enhances the one part of equation (of 2) required for better combustion.

I hope this helps.

Hi, slippercream,


Again, thanks for your meaningful and empathic replies. Nonetheless, today I've got rid of that car at a great loss of about $5000 and I can't imagine I could ever think of a Mitsubishi car or a CVT-equipped car ever again. I think this is the end of story for me. I'm now looking for an honest old-school car with a manual transmission and a normal atmospheric engine with a decent volume. Looks like the next one will be a Mazda. )))

 

[tleduc]

Hi, I have a brand new Eclipse Cross SE AWD and for sure, the CVT sound is weird. During normal acceleration on a green light, the CVT "shifts" like if it was passing from 1st gear to 4th gear. Then the Turbo engages at low RPM and you feel the torque, but also vibration that probably comes from the engine mount resonnance.

Plus, the software programmation is made to protect the mechanic, we have a progressive throttle ramp-up during acceleration, everything is dampened in this car to protect mechanic. Push the gaz pedal and look at the delay before the car start the accelerate. Then, the turbo get in, after again. There is 2 phases during accelerations, CVT and then the Turbo.

Today I experienced a neutral feeling directly from the CVT when starting on a green light: I tought I was in neutral until the transmission engaged - it's not normal. What is that? A futur recall?

I don't see how I could keep this car more than 1 year.

Finally, does anyone experienced how much the rear suspension is bouncing? It's near dangerous on bumpy roads while taking a curve. It's not a question of confort, it's just not well calibrated - I feel like I have a pivot of rotation on the front wheel and not shocks on the rear. The car is new, imagine when the suspension will be worn.

 

[zarbs]

Finally, does anyone experienced how much the rear suspension is bouncing? It's near dangerous on bumpy roads while taking a curve. It's not a question of confort, it's just not well calibrated - I feel like I have a pivot of rotation on the front wheel and not shocks on the rear. The car is new, imagine when the suspension will be worn.

Hi,

I drive my EC Exceed AWD (SAWC) primarily on country roads in Australia and many of these are in poor condition. I had a journey just yesterday of 120 Km each way with some very bumpy and rutted sharp curves and did not notice any "skipping" of the rear in the corner. In fact it was quite stable whilst cornering on these badly rutted roads. Having said that I don't know if our models here in Australia (RHD) have a steering and suspension geometry setup that differs from the US. The manufacturers here always love to tout their models are tried and tested for the Australian conditions. My EC has been on the road for 4 months but only has 4500 Km on the clock and mostly country road driving...

 

[Telferstr]

Hi ex-plorer.
Sorry to read of your troubles, but I think you should let your Service Manager at your Dealership, hear the noise you are experiencing, and let him decide if this is normal or that something is amiss.
Fortunately in the UK we have the option of manual transmission, which my car has. I'm delighted with the engines performance and also how quiet it is in going about its daily operation.
Here's hoping you can get this problem resolved and that you can start to enjoy your new Eclipse Cross.

 

[Willisjamaica]

Just sharing my knowledge and experience with mitsubishi as it relates to main mention issues...
The tappet sound heard is a common thing in mitsubishi engine its not a failure anout to happen...if it is that you want to get rid of it then easiest option is to change the grade of oil thats been use... what is happening is the contact point of the valve tappet meets and create this sound ..... and it more promouce when engine is hot especially after a long drive ... this ia because oil thins out ..hence the option solution to use a thick grade oil which acts as a better cushion between contact point even at higher temperature.

"Finally, does anyone experienced how much the rear suspension is bouncing? It's near dangerous on bumpy roads while taking a curve. It's not a question of confort, it's just not well calibrated - I feel like I have a pivot of rotation on the front wheel and not shocks on the rear. The car is new, imagine when the suspension will be worn."
Bro almost all vehicle with McPherson struts behave in this manner ...hence u slow down ..... sameway when u see sand or oil on road you slow down.
Anything different will be consider or call weird and obviously CVT is different to you hence you says weird... but as slippercream explain that the CVT is like a bicycle gearing and base on tension ,speed your likely to hear noise...its not unusual... every transmission makes noise its just that the CVT gives a winding sound we are worried that it going to break... ita that preconceived belief why you think everything and sound is an issue.
Driving off from a dead stop in a cvt is different as it doesn't require the heavy gas pedal ... and the programing are mainly for driving in the 1500 -2000rpm range ..but many driving bad habit of stepping in the gas pedal ..will not get the result of a instance acceleration from an mitsubishi ... and this is not so because of protecting mechanism but its for safety...as ppl accidentally spress gass pedal in driveways...other manufacturer uses this saftey measure also.... now if it is the your in haste to move off quickly... put the dam vehicle in sport mode!!! That will lock the torque converter and give you instant acceleration...stepping on the gas in any mitsubishi from 2000 up will not give you that instant acceleration ..unless its a manual.
Cvt serve its purpose well the only problem anybody would have is that they/we are not able to push it way beyond what the manufacturer limited simple ... these cvt implement in mitsubishi are way more better than many other company if not the best I have driven.
However like every one else I need back the evo n eclipse.