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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, all -

Has anyone measured the F/R swaybars yet? If not, I can always get underneath and put calipers to them. (Been kinda lazy of late.)
Furthermore, has anyone upgraded their swaybars? Any feedback?

Getting tired of driving around a boat whenever in the wife's Cross, and considering this as an upgrade. Thanks in advance.
 

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I don't have the measurements but while searching I found this website. I haven't vetted the site yet so I can't say the location or fitment of product's.

Dude check out those lower control arms they look cool

EDIT* Taiwan website. But you could always start with something small to see if it shows up in one piece. I bought motorcycle parts from Japan and I couldn't read any of the paperwork haha
 

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I haven't been underneath our EC either, so I don't even know how hard they would be to change let alone the measurements. The front can't be a whole lot more difficult that the MX-5 front bar, which I argued with for the best part of an hour after removing most of the splash guards up front. It reminded me of one of those metal wire disentanglement puzzles.

I wish someone like Eibach would make a set for the EC. Those aleksracing bars are nice but I wonder (without the dimensions of the stock bars) if they're too stiff? Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. I just would like something to make quick left-right transitions a bit more precise and to reduce body roll.

I may drop Eibach and Hotchkis a line just for S&G. They don't list a set for the EC, but an email wouldn't hurt.
 

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Thanks. There is a photo showing both the stock and Hardrace bar, so that gives me some idea of the sizes. The Hardrace doesn't look too much larger, but as a hollow and adjustable bar (at least at the front) it should be significantly stiffer. I may drop the Canadian Hardrace distributor a line to get a price.
 

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Also It looks like the upper strut bar has a whole lot of flex to it ( although I’d imagine it’s a lot less flex once bolted to the firewall.) This is my first suv / cuv . So I’m not sure if that’s a normal suv thing ( to go over small rocks curves and such , the whole off road part ). But I think upgrading that would also make a difference . But not as much as upgraded sway bars I grant you .

 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Hey all - thanks for the feedback! (Strange that I didn't get pings saying there were responses on this thread.)

Yes, Hardrace was the only manufacturer that produces swaybars. Though, I'll have to say, don't worry about end links - those are as dumb as they get.
I just replaced factory ones I fucked up on the FTO (had to cut off as I stripped the allen stud ends), and got ES universal adjustable ones --- and THICK! Trust me, these are SO much better designed than the regular rubber ones :) Heims encased in the Poly they're so famous for.

I hadn't had a chance to crawl underneath the Cross as getting this other dinosaur up to modern spec has been distracting me way too much. Will probably do this tonight.
(Funny, I just ordered Hardrace adjustable rear end dogbones for the FTO, too, since no one else makes 'em for anymore that car either. From TW, only 4d with expedited shipping. Arriving tomorrow.)

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Tech Commentary

What we're at a loss for here, guys, is that no one seems to have played around with suspension on this forum. And I understand why that's the case. Looking at those swaybars both being 1" even does make me wonder - was this just a rush job to get something out to market? Has Hardrace actually done R&D to determine whether this is a good combo?

I have no doubt that the swaybars - if in fact thicker, will address some of that horrible body roll. However...
Usually, with a FWD-biased AWD, we'll want tighter lateral suspension on the rear, to combat understeer that's clearly noticeable in the Cross. If they're both the same thickness, I have an uneasy feeling it won't feel right being that the vehicle is going to be much heavier up-front. Not to mention COG is going to be much higher.

Again, it's back to the caliper. I'll try to make those measurements tonight. Then maybe make an order based on that.
In the end, given the lack of options, it might be a better idea to just upgrade the rear and not the front, and let the rear suspension handle most of the lateral Gs for the sake of combating understeer. We'll see.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah man - I'm not convinced I want to pay $550 for front LCAs that aren't adjustable (what's the point??!), and rears that look like stock parts. Remember, at least for the rear there is a cammed camber bolt to help adjust rear camber. Unless someone's really dumping the vehicle, or wanting to "stance" it - I don't see why this is necessary. I'm sure the factory arms are plenty sufficient, especially since... who would actually Track a Cross? 😂

Anyway, there are other more established brands out there that produce similar adjustable parts. The front looks uncannily similar to the arms off a CN/CZ Lancer. Unless the scales are completely apart by inches, I suspect that adjustable parts off the former would probably work for the Cross as well.

All else remaining equal, I'd say to just stiffen up that rear, just stick to upgrading bushings to poly. (at least a 70A shore hardness) Personally, I'd leave the LCAs alone unless you were converting a Cross to something of an off-road or pure race vehicle.
 

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I have no doubt that the swaybars - if in fact thicker, will address some of that horrible body roll. However...
Usually, with a FWD-biased AWD, we'll want tighter lateral suspension on the rear, to combat understeer that's clearly noticeable in the Cross. If they're both the same thickness, I have an uneasy feeling it won't feel right being that the vehicle is going to be much heavier up-front. Not to mention COG is going to be much higher.

Again, it's back to the caliper. I'll try to make those measurements tonight. Then maybe make an order based on that.
In the end, given the lack of options, it might be a better idea to just upgrade the rear and not the front, and let the rear suspension handle most of the lateral Gs for the sake of combating understeer. We'll see.
I agree that if the Hardrace bars are larger by the same proportion front/rear as the stock bars (if that makes sense...) it would decrease the body roll but do little to reduce understeer. The rear bar would need to be proportionally somewhat stiffer (or adjustable) to compensate for that, but it seems the Hardrace rear bar is not adjustable. Mounting an upgraded rear bar only would be an interesting experiment, but I would want the option of adding the upgraded front bar as well in case things got too squirrely out back.

On a somewhat related note: has anyone played around with alignment settings? I'm curious as to whether a bit more negative camber up front may help with understeer. I don't know what the stock alignment specs are to begin with, however.

Great info on here, BTW. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Sorry guys, been a bit lazy these past few days but I am committing to getting that caliper under the car to measure the swaybars sometime this weekend. (Not to mention, the wife drives the Cross as her daily and doesn't get home until it's so close to sundown.)

@mxhdroom Thanks - though the hardrace ones aren't adjustable, you could always opt for adjustable end links as well, to help with "pre-load". Shorter ones, to lessen any "play". It's not the same effect as bars with several mounting positions, but the point is, that might offer some pre-load. If the links are hefty enough - like the ES ones, then that should do nicely! Weakest link still remains the strength of the joints themselves (again, doesn't look to be a challenge for the heims on the ES'.)

Also, the Hardrace dogbones came in earlier today and man, are they hefty, too. Gives me a stiffy just thinking about how thick I've gone all around. That car's going to be hard on the ass once it's done.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Edit: Sent earlier via phone. Adding pics for reference.
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ok confirmed just now. OE swaybar diameter is 20mm on both F and R.

Front: Apparently I moved my hand a bit when I took this shot. I swear it's really 20mm.

IMG_20201120_161138.jpg
Rear
1160
 

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ok confirmed just now. OE swaybar diameter is 20mm on both F and R.
Thanks @slippercream; great info. So a 30mm on the front and a 32 -35mm (or adjustable) on the rear sounds about right?

I mean, this is a CUV and we shouldn't expect sports car handling from it, but better left/right transitions and reduced body roll would be welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That might be a bit stiff. The Hardrace ones might be a good start, at 25mm for both. I mean, if F/R factory ones are the same diameter, there might be some merit in simply upgrading these to much stiffer ones. I would imagine 25mm seems a pretty good uprate from 20, without being stiff as a rock. Or, someone could try just installing these in the rear, to see whether it changes the handling characteristics of the car in any positive way.

Not sure how S-AWC will react to having more grip on the rear compared to the front. Whether it'll overcompensate. I doubt it'll push more torque to the rear axles, as IIRC torque transfer between F/R can't be more than 50%.

Either way, "feel" will be completely subjective. I'll have a chat with the chassis guys when I take the other one in for suspension tuning/alignment after Thanksgiving.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
For reference, here's an example of the ES end links I was talking about much earlier. They come in various lengths. FYI, the threaded studs are 3/8".

The factory end link rods are about 9mm.

1161
 
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